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Post by Amairgen on Aug 30, 2021 7:45:23 GMT -8
Okay . . today on a test basis we made these changes (let us know how they play):
1) Items with Arcane charges now have only a 5% chance to use up charges when mages cast spells
2) Worg AI has changed a bit so they have less chance of doing major Health drains on enemies.
As I said . . try these for a while and give us your thoughts.
Cheers
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Post by Bran on Aug 31, 2021 6:32:29 GMT -8
I will test my worg and see how big change is.
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Post by Bran on Aug 31, 2021 11:12:06 GMT -8
I just spend 2 hrs in atlantis dungeon with my worg. We did ok but the tactic I learned from last trip helps a lot. If he only fights little guys he eats them up.
He is still a great pet but noticable he took longer to beat the big guys. He can still win if I heal a lot and he is not swarmed too much. I used about 80 bandages. I died once and he died once. He don't drop their health as fast as before he just wears them down if I keep him alive.
After fighting the dungeon mobs we took three runs at OMGHALP and that did not work good. I stayed alive but he just died real fast three times. Maybe if a bunch of us tried him we could win but not sure.
Over all im happy with the changes made. My worg feels more like a pet in big fights should. He is close but not as strong as the drow dragon. Question is if he is too close to drow and needs more nerf. I will go with majority on that.
edit. forgot to say my arcane cloak boots and gloves. After 2 hours of casting thye dropped 8 charges so they seem to wear down more like any equipmnent. Seems better.
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Post by alk760 on Aug 31, 2021 11:26:16 GMT -8
Less chance is good. Zero chance would be better. If a pet can deal more damage than any player build even if a low chance then Animal Taming becomes the best main/support build. Warriors/Archers and Casters roughly deal the same DPS with in a 30 second time frame. Warrior can stand toe to tow with 10+ monsters. Casters/Archers are able to Kite and kill Mobs of 10+ slightly slower and with a lot more running involved. Tameing is definitely a more laid back way to farm weaker mobs and I preferred it for farming Fan Dancer Dojo for Stat Shirts. With a Decent Tartarus Spawned Shadow Wyrm My tamer was able to handle all instance mobs except for the Twin Plague Beast Boss. OMGHALP and "most" End game Quests were all doable it just took some time/deaths. *also was before the Veterinary update so I was only healing for 50 per bandage* When the New AI was put in that attack became available and instantly I was killing everything as if I were Amairgen himself -_-. With two basic 3 slot dragons I was able to Kill Szavetra in under a minute. OMGHALP was about 2 minutes if he didn't teleport out of the Dungeon that is. Even the Twin Plague Bests fell to the raw power of that drain attack. It was a broken mechanic then and even if it's reduced and restricted to certain mobs it will still deal more damage than anything else available.
OMGHALP is intended to be a group fight but is still solo-able if you have the time.
IMO Barding should be more powerful than Taming. |
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Post by Bran on Aug 31, 2021 13:15:14 GMT -8
Wow you got way better tactic then me. next time you do OMGHALP please let me know i need to see that. |
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Post by Crossbreed on Aug 31, 2021 18:04:37 GMT -8
Bran, you can solo omghalp with a specific pet, worg isn't the one meant for it. It's very doable without a single death, but you have to micromanage your pet well.  Have you tested the newest iteration of the worg, Alk? I do think that's important to do. I disagree that this mechanic is broken in every iteration, as it becomes useless after a certain point and is also not useful in many others, it's not the same exact mechanic you're used to and is a dialed down version. The dragons had a different version of this mechanic, I've seen it firsthand. The dragons continued to drop HP% beyond the first 50%, Worg does not. This is an important difference and a distinction worth noting, so making the comparison isn't quite accurate. Another issue is the fact that lots of important enemies have very inflated hp pools, so %HP damage is way stronger. I understand if they're designed for group content, but fact is that this server is primarily a solo-hunting type of server. However, the issues you're talking about are more complex than that, and would require a bigger overhaul to the game's system as a whole. |
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Post by Bran on Sept 1, 2021 17:18:26 GMT -8
Bran, you can solo omghalp with a specific pet, worg isn't the one meant for it. It's very doable without a single death, but you have to micromanage your pet well. Today I took some of new pets to Atlantis. With you hint I found the one for OMGHALP. Could not stay long enugh to finish him but was close. Im not as good as you so i died but pet lived. Wish I didnt have to leave it would be fun to loot him. I am thinking more of the pets than worg need Amairgen to look at them. Amairgen if you call me we can talk. We gonna get there cause we know what to do now. |
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Post by Amairgen on Sept 2, 2021 9:03:12 GMT -8
Okay . . we just rebooted and brought in an 'adjustment' on the pets with the new AI.
Remember . . the idea is not to nerf these new AI pets but rather to get them into their logical placement in the order of things. They should be stronger than many but generally weaker than the Drow dragon (I do not mean weaker by a large amount because they act differently at times and do have their places).
It would help if the tamers who have any of the new AI pets . . try them out over the next couple of days and let us know your honest opinion:
1) how do they compare to the Drow Dragon?
2) do they still do tooo much immediate damage in fights?
3) is the damage they do consistent through out their fights or . . are there sticky points (and/or strong points) at any stages of the battle?
4) are there any other things you see or are concerned about?
Input is appreciated . . the sweet spot will be found.
*bows*
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Post by Bran on Sept 2, 2021 14:27:08 GMT -8
I took the ai pet I found works on OMGHALP for another fight today. I thought what Crossbreed said about tactics and with better attention i killed OMGHALP. It took me close to 2 hours and it was a fun fight. I got killed three times and my pet got kill three times but we did it.
Don't want to say what pet it is who is good on OMGHALP but I think he is too strong. He has some ability to heal himself and somehow he resist a lot of OMGHALP damage. Amairgen can decide and look to see what causes this.
I have not tried the other pets yet but will report when I do.
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Post by Tracina on Sept 2, 2021 19:04:57 GMT -8
What upsets me is that I have a worg that is a good pet... I fight with it a lot and we both die a lot... I can't go to the most challenging areas alone without dying very quickly or my pet dying very quickly (atlantis). Someone thinks this pet is too powerful so it gets changed, making it less powerful that it was, which wasn't enough to survive the the more challenging content... Now it comes out that there is another pet that can take on the most powerful boss (OMGHALP) in the game with little problem (ya, a few deaths) and that's ok?
If we're at a point that if the worg was too powerful to begin with and required nerfing, why do we have more powerful pets that aren't? (It literally took me and my worg 10 deaths each (no exaggeration) to kill a single drow dragon with little chance to get an egg)....
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Post by Amairgen on Sept 3, 2021 7:42:29 GMT -8
What upsets me is that I have a worg that is a good pet... I fight with it a lot and we both die a lot... I can't go to the most challenging areas alone without dying very quickly or my pet dying very quickly (atlantis). Someone thinks this pet is too powerful so it gets changed, making it less powerful that it was, which wasn't enough to survive the the more challenging content... Now it comes out that there is another pet that can take on the most powerful boss (OMGHALP) in the game with little problem (ya, a few deaths) and that's ok? If we're at a point that if the worg was too powerful to begin with and required nerfing, why do we have more powerful pets that aren't? (It literally took me and my worg 10 deaths each (no exaggeration) to kill a single drow dragon with little chance to get an egg).... Hi Tracina What you are saying is correct but may possibly be missing the point a little because you are only using the Worg (I think). I will try to explain but believe me, remain open to input. 1) The Worg I believe is fine now as it only needed a slight adjustment that has been done. The way it used to be . . it (and all the new AI pets) had the ability to drop an enemies Hit Points down from their Max by 10% on every strike until they were at 50% health and then continue dropping it by 5% until the enemy was at 10% of its Max. That all seemed fine until we discovered that with the high Dex these pets have, they were striking every second or faster which dropped an enemy from its Max Hit Points at an unrealistic speed (in some cases it appeared instantaneous). Once it got the enemy down to 10% health then the battle became more realistic. What we adjusted was an edit that tries to make the battle realistic from the beginning to the end. Yes this does also give the enemy more time to get its own damage and special abilities into the fight but also makes the fight more interesting. 2) The mystery pet (one of the new AI pets) that worries OMGHALP in the Atlantis dungeon still has way too much advantage against OMGHALP. That needs looking at because it was never ever my intention that OMGHALP should be able to be done solo (unless you are highly skilled, have a ton of resources, the patience of Job, and the luck of the Irish all on your side). He was always intended to be a group challenge. The problem is not so much that this mystery pet is overpowered but that OMGHALP has been made weak against it and I will be working on correcting the degree of weakness or may even remove that brain f*rt completely. It is also possible that adjusting OMGHALP for all the new pets (instead of changing the pets further) may be the answer. Regardless I will let everyone know what changes are made so further observations can be done. 3) The Drow Guardian Dragons that drop the egg for the Drow Dragon pet are difficult by design because their egg is intended to hatch the shard's big pet. Now having said that . . the Drow Dragon pet's main advantages are . . a greater Health Pool, higher strength and the ability to train skills up to 120. At full development it is intended to be slightly more powerful than the Worg and other new AI pets and because of this it does stand up better against the Drow Guardians. In all cases though you better pay attention and keep your pets healed. 4) The Boss type monsters have a vast array of special powers and abilities as well as some weaknesses. Some are stronger against certain pets and some are weak against certain pets. Some are stronger using Melee or Magic and some are weaker against Melee or Magic. Many have the ability to turn pets against their owner during a fight so keep on your toes for a pet who turns toward you during a fight so you can set its command back against the foe. 5) In General: I know from past experience that every time we go through changes that affect a particular template (be it Warrior, Mage or Tamer), it is unsettling to players. As a player for years in the past I have experienced this myself many times. As an Admin I try very hard to make adjustments like this as painless as possible and I am sensitive to community concerns. With the new AI pets I do not see this as a 'Nerf'. I see it as an adjustment to something new that was put into the game a couple of months ago and have only more recently been found, tamed and used by a greater number of Tamers. As they were used more and became more commonly seen, some disadvantages to the overall system were discovered. I know that the changes I make to these new pets will take a little time to get right and that is why I asked for testing and input. Tamers have pets. Warriors have Mercenaries. Mages have powerful range spells and powerful Summons. Adventurers with the Ninjutsu skill have a Mirror Image that obeys pet commands and will fight. There will be further small adjustments until people are happy but the end goal will always be balance. I will be working on this more (with ears open) and I believe together we can get the pets right within the next two weeks. Meanwhile I hope for everyone's patience and assistance with observations and input. *bows* |
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Post by Crossbreed on Sept 3, 2021 15:39:31 GMT -8
What upsets me is that I have a worg that is a good pet... I fight with it a lot and we both die a lot... I can't go to the most challenging areas alone without dying very quickly or my pet dying very quickly (atlantis). Someone thinks this pet is too powerful so it gets changed, making it less powerful that it was, which wasn't enough to survive the the more challenging content... Now it comes out that there is another pet that can take on the most powerful boss (OMGHALP) in the game with little problem (ya, a few deaths) and that's ok? If we're at a point that if the worg was too powerful to begin with and required nerfing, why do we have more powerful pets that aren't? (It literally took me and my worg 10 deaths each (no exaggeration) to kill a single drow dragon with little chance to get an egg).... This is part of what I feared to an extent, I know this pain all too well and I know that other players will be especially affected if they feel that their experience hasn't matched the experience a couple others have had. I think it's even more potentially dangerous with a smaller player count. I hope the changes don't alienate you too much, if it's any reassurance I don't think the changes will impact the Worg too much compared to its previous iteration. If I may ask, are you a pure tamer? What is your template? I'm curious what tamer templates players are running around with. EDIT: Additionally, I think my template skews "tamer results" to an extent. I don't die often, if at all, because my template is built to be IMMENSELY safe and self-sufficient even when my pet falls. I can go into more detail if any are interested or write up a forum post about it, but I do think I built my tamer a bit differently than most. |
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Post by Tracina on Sept 3, 2021 19:20:40 GMT -8
Thank you Amairgen for the thoughtful response. I appreciate all you do for your server and I know you strive to make the playing field even for everyone. I just found it odd that the Worg was singled out especially when That's my primary pet and I know it's not over powered. There are a lot of places I can't go with it, so in my experience I never thought it to be over powered. Sure, I was able to go places some non-tamers could not go, but there are also a lot of places I still cannot go. I'll look forward to maybe trying to get a Drow Dragon, but with 10+ deaths per try for an egg, I'm sure I'll get frustrated and move on.
Crossbreed, I'm a tamer/Mage. I used to have carto and lockpicking, but have since dropped the Carto to pick up Necromancy, which I found isn't working for me since I don't have room in my template to get Spirit Speak which is used for the Ancient Incantations. So I'm not really sure what I'm going to do. I currently have Taming, Lore, Vet, Magery, Eval, Hiding, Lockpicking, Necromancy, Music and Peace.
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Post by Crossbreed on Sept 4, 2021 0:40:17 GMT -8
Thank you Amairgen for the thoughtful response. I appreciate all you do for your server and I know you strive to make the playing field even for everyone. I just found it odd that the Worg was singled out especially when That's my primary pet and I know it's not over powered. There are a lot of places I can't go with it, so in my experience I never thought it to be over powered. Sure, I was able to go places some non-tamers could not go, but there are also a lot of places I still cannot go. I'll look forward to maybe trying to get a Drow Dragon, but with 10+ deaths per try for an egg, I'm sure I'll get frustrated and move on. Crossbreed, I'm a tamer/Mage. I used to have carto and lockpicking, but have since dropped the Carto to pick up Necromancy, which I found isn't working for me since I don't have room in my template to get Spirit Speak which is used for the Ancient Incantations. So I'm not really sure what I'm going to do. I currently have Taming, Lore, Vet, Magery, Eval, Hiding, Lockpicking, Necromancy, Music and Peace. Nice, so you've got a pretty good toolbox set of abilities there. Thanks, was just curious. But yea, I feel you on that, the changes shouldn't be too impactful at least! |
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Post by Amairgen on Sept 4, 2021 9:29:55 GMT -8
Take your Worg out for some walks and hunts. I think you will find he is fine. I think the only real difference you will find is . . while he wins the day, he should not drop the monsters health by tone right from the first bite. It should be more of a steady progression instead of a huge drop them hitting a wall.
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