Taming Mega-Thread

[Amairgen]

Okay . . As a test before I go too far down a 'rabbit hole' I have created a version of the Charger of the Fallen that has 6 skills instead of 5 and can be trained up to 120 on all except for Meditation capped at 100. Also when it evolves it will have the Title of 'Imperious'. My idea at this point would be to have the Deed for these dropped on a 10% chance when Taming a Charger of the Fallen.

I am open to suggestions and would like a volunteer to test one of these out so we can get good input before proceeding on a wider scale and also implementing a variety of different skill/power combinations for the Tamer's stable.

[alk760]

Sign me up.

Also can we get some Chargers to spawn in Tartarus?
I've never found one if there are any.

[Crossbreed]

Sounds cool. I'll test 'em if I can find one.

[Crossbreed]

I've tamed quite a few today and none gave a better version of the charger. I can't tell if you implemented it as a drop yet. The only thing that happened that was noteworthy was the fact that one of the exalted's was labeled as untameable.

[Amairgen]

The new Charger Contract has not been set to drop yet. Wanted to test first then open it up other types of Evos as well. I put a Contract and some Feed in your backpack to test and let me know how it goes. Alk is also testing one.

There are three spots in Felluca where Chargers spawn. Do not rule out islands and yes also the Newlands *grins*

Cheers

[Crossbreed]

Have a feeling the couple spots I thought "he won't put it there" might have been the spots now.

Also thanks, I'll give it a test and let you know.

[Amairgen]

Jan 4, 2020 16:05:52 GMT -8 Crossbreed said:

Have a feeling the couple spots I thought "he won't put it there" might have been the spots now.

Also thanks, I'll give it a test and let you know.

Thank you Crossbreed. Your feed back on anything 'Taming' is valued here.

[Crossbreed]

From what I've done and seen so far:

1. 120 Wrestling helps with hitting more often/avoiding being hit for sure. It's a reasonable improvement that makes the pets more capable in combat, but does not push them over the edge in terms of effectiveness. They still can't fight stronger enemies without a lot of support/constant healing, and sometimes can't be healed fast enough to offset enemy dps (atlantis titans/"dark fathers", vile basilisks, etc).

2. 120 Tactics/Anatomy gives a reasonable damage increase, but nothing major.

3. 120 Magery doesn't feel too impactful, eval int same deal. The spells are only going to do roughly 1/10th of the damage that the charger typically does in melee combat unless the spell hits for a weakness type, and even then it's still only hitting for like 1/5th of the damage. (This is because Chargers do so much melee damage that it dwarfs any spells they cast). Spells have never scaled well when it comes to pets using them.

4. Hit Points: The new charger has a marginally higher hp pool. I think that's fine, because if the charger had high hp it'd be an effective tank and the hardest hitting pet at the same time, making other pets not as appealing in the future for any role the other pets might fill. Pets become broken when they do everything at once, so making sure the charger does not have too much hp is important in making sure it doesn't become broken compared to other pets.

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As a side note: Even on the vanilla servers for a decent while, pets had some variety according to content and roles. I remember the days of some tamers running a full hell hound squad/double fire steeds to dps in Doom while another tamer used a cu sidhe to tank mobs. Then, there would be warriors, archers, and/or mages dealing their own slayer-boosted dps. The biggest problem for pet balance, imo, was the introduction of greater dragons becoming the new "one size fits all" pet. They did good damage and were tanky at the same time. This rendered the "drawback" of having to play on foot as one that wasn't a big deal considering the huge payoff. Now, acknowledging that (at this current point in time) most content that players have to do on this server is solo is important, but tamers have access to 8 pet slots here. This should allow tamers to create "compositions" with their pets that allow them to handle pets fitting into specific roles (dps, tank, etc).

But anyways, my ultimate opinion on the buffs is: Charger in its current state fits well as a dps pet, and these new buffs allow it to be an even more formidable dps pet for stronger enemies. I do believe that with these buffs it's definitely not broken (compared to late game enemy stats). However, the true test is removing instant pet kill mechanics on certain enemies and seeing how the pets fare in fair combat against the true end-game of the server.

[Amairgen]

Very interesting and appreciated. Okay . . some general stuff to know and/or ponder:

Many of the big bosses are scripted to do extra damage to certain pets and the Evos are included in that. Some do extra melee and some extra spell damage. Also some of these take reduced damage from certain pets. All of this can be changed and we could even have the damage done or taken varied from one boss to the next. These changes may be considered (to make venturing and pet combos more interesting but after we get the basic pets right first.

The biggest problem with the new 'Test' Chargers not doing better spell damage (even with 120 skill) lies in the pet AI they are using which limits the choice of spells to Ebolt and Flamestrike. We could create a new AI (or several new AIs) that implement a wider variety of spells (Chain Lightning, Explosion, Earthquake etc). Different AIs could apply to different pets making some better in certain situations.

[Crossbreed]

I think it's okay that chargers specifically don't have great spells to use, since it seems to me they're already good at hitting hard with melee attacks as their core. But I do think it could definitely be interesting to implement different spells on different pets, that opens up cool possibilities for pets to do other more interesting things. Varying pet roles could also allow more interesting tamer off-shoot builds to be effective as well, like tamer/archer, tamer/warrior, etc instead of the classic tamer/bard or tamer/mages.

And yea, makes sense. It's better to see how they'll fare after some more pets get some love. After that point it'll be possible to test overall pet balance in a wider variety of circumstances.

[alk760]

The Imperious Charger like all other Shrinkable pets are still on the low side of the health spectrum.
It's melee damage is deffinately on the high end. And i dont see any need for it to have better spell damage when it can kick for 350+. 

 What i've noticed and compaired ingame there is still a big gap in pets stats when it comes to the  Shrinkable "exalted" to the normal ones spawned in Tartarus mainly in  the health department.

The Imperious has  roughly 1000 health
Tartarus Charger has roughly 2600 health.

I suguest we increase the health of the Shrinkables to better reflect what the Tartarus versions have

Every Shrinkable pet needs a substancial health increase of like 200 health per slot requirement.
1 slot requirement bonus of 200 health - 6 slot requirement bonus of 1200 health. Along with a 120 skill cap.

Vetrinary bandage heal is stilll extremely low and the ammount healed could easily be doubled.

I prefer using bandages to heal pets not overpowered potions.

[Amairgen]

Jan 6, 2020 20:19:14 GMT -8 Crossbreed said:

. . . .I do think it could definitely be interesting to implement different spells on different pets, that opens up cool possibilities for pets to do other more interesting things. Varying pet roles could also allow more interesting tamer off-shoot builds to be effective as well, like tamer/archer, tamer/warrior, etc instead of the classic tamer/bard or tamer/mages.

And yea, makes sense. It's better to see how they'll fare after some more pets get some love. After that point it'll be possible to test overall pet balance in a wider variety of circumstances.

FYI . . This has not been forgotten and is the next thing on my list for attention (unless an emergency pops up).

The Pet/Monster AI project is very interesting and complex but I love a challenge *grins* Their are numerous AI scripts involved. Some are stand alone and others rely on additional scripts working with them for the end result.

Here are some of the things I need to investigate which will help show the possible ways forward:

1) Can I get a Pet's AI to change as it evolves and/or gains experience or is the creature AI hard coded at its creation?

2) If AI can be changed during a creature's life then can I change a monsters AI to a new AI if it is Tamed?

3) If we create new AI's for monsters and pets will it automatically apply to existing creatures? (highly doubtful). So . . do we respawn existing ones or create new special ones to be hunted for the new abilities?

4) What abilities should we try to bring in with any new AIs?

Any input is always appreciated as I look into this.

[Crossbreed]

Sounds awesome!

I personally don't mind if existing tamed creatures don't have the new AI, makes hunting for them fresh and fun again. It's definitely possible that some of the existing "Special" pets can be given some new functionality so that they aren't just shrunk/"stabled" after they're found (like the polar bear, ice steed, etc). Hopefully it's fun to explore the possibilities for how exactly everything works! Abilities would probably take some experimenting.. I'm guessing possible routes include a pack instinct pet (ostard covers this atm), various caster-oriented pets (mage, necro, etc), a true supportive/healing/"buffing" pet, tank pets, and much more. So it'll be interesting to see. It's also potentially interesting to wonder what existing creatures would be cool to base pets off of. Lots of possibilities!

[Amairgen]

Apr 18, 2020 7:58:27 GMT -8 Amairgen said:

. . . . Here are some of the things I need to investigate which will help show the possible ways forward:

1) Can I get a Pet's AI to change as it evolves and/or gains experience or is the creature AI hard coded at its creation?

2) If AI can be changed during a creature's life then can I change a monsters AI to a new AI if it is Tamed?

3) If we create new AI's for monsters and pets will it automatically apply to existing creatures? (highly doubtful). So . . do we respawn existing ones or create new special ones to be hunted for the new abilities?

4) What abilities should we try to bring in with any new AIs?

Update:

1) On the 'Test Server' I have now found a way to have a creature's AI change based on various things such as;
- changes in its Hits/Mana during a battle
- changes in its skill gains
- changes in its status such as being Tamed or not
- etc

2) All of this when implemented will not affect any existing creatures in our world but only newly spawned ones. As a result some questions arise as to how would anyone know if they are dealing with one of the new creatures or with an oldstyle one.

Note:
All of what I have accomplished on this so far still requires a lot of testing on the Test Server. When the changes do come in I know there will be some adjustments needed but I want these as few as possible. Also . . I have not spent much time pondering what all abilities should be involved but I have been able to give the new pets the ability to Heal and Resurrect their owners.

That's it for now and of course as always I am open to ideas.

[Crossbreed]

Sounds like you have some good flexibility with AI changes. As far as changes in skill gains, does that mean it could "unlock" abilities/AI changes at certain skill levels?

For 2) - I think giving the new versions hues so that they stand out would be interesting. A model change like changing a spellcaster/healer AI creature to a pheonix or whatever model you wanted could be cool too, but it'd be like making an entirely new creature, of course.

There's a lot of routes for new AI versions. They could be rare spawns in general from their base creature type, new creatures entirely with a new spawn zone, tied to a special event or quest or puzzle of some sort, etc. Each would have its own fun tied to it! If the creature you're changing is intended as a buff to an already existing pet, then I guess that would just require people to switch over which would happen over time as people found out about the new AI improvements.

As for the abilities involved, I guess that comes down to what's possible and how it can fit into different kinds of AI/Pet "styles," I guess you could call them. So stuff like defensive pets, offensive damage pets, supportive buffing/debuffing pets, etc.

Hope you have fun with it