Metal Armors

[fightingferret]

Is there any reason why I would want to use metal armor over leather armor?

[Amairgen]

Looking at the basisc . . Plate armor gives more protection than Leather against physical damage but it does come with a dexterity penalty and inability to meditate.

Here is what the scripts say . . .

Leather Chest:
BasePhysicalResistance = 2
ArmorProtection = 13
ArmorMeditationAllowance = true

Plate Chest:
BasePhysicalResistance = 5
DexBonus = -8
ArmorProtection = 40
ArmorMeditationAllowance = false

Now . . Runics and Spellcrafting can make Leather more protective. Also adding mana regen etc to Plate can offset its penalties. Everyone
has their own preferences.

[fightingferret]

Well doing some research this is what I found that all the armors are roughly equal in their protection (15/16 resists per piece)  Of course as you stated plate gives a better physical value than leather, but we are talking about 3 points per piece, so 18 total resists.  Materials can give bonuses, as can high arms lore (+5 random resists @ gm), creating exceptional pieces (+15 random resists), and of course runic crafting and spell crafting.  The bigest difference is the meditation factor, the dexterity penalty, and strength requirements.

Now if my leather armor grants me full resists (max is 70 usable), requires just 25 strength, weighs 16 stone, allows me to meditate, and gives no penalties why would I wear it

vs

my plate mail armor granting me full resists, requires 95 strength (can be removed when cursed, if strength isn't high enough to stay at or above), weighs 31 stone, doesn't allow me to meditate, and takes away a whopping 20 dexterity?

The weight difference is negligible.


Now I'm not the type of person who cares about power gaming or min/maxing, but that seems strange to me.  I would like to see everyone use what they please (within reason, of course) but is there anything that can be done to make plate (and the other armors) a bit more tempting to use?  Maybe give it defense chance increase, damage reduction, higher durability and/or slower durability loss?  Another alternative would be to remove at least the dex penalty.

Currently almost everyone is wearing arete gear, which is great armor that everyone can get very early with very little skill.  My ranger walked in with gm weapon skills and mopped up.  My bard/mage (50 magery) cast 2 blade spirits and killed all the enemies to earn his suit.  Add to that the fact that it can be further upgraded by a tailor to exceptional enhanced (with gm arms lore) to be even better.  I'm not complaining about the arete stuff (it's very good), I just want there to be a variety of gear instead of artifacts.

I have yet to test this IN game, but will do so... this is based off of the info you provided above and data from uo stratics and uoguide.

Also any idea what the ArmorProtection value you provided does?  It seems like the old AR system values.  I don't know if any of this is possible, but it's weird seeing everyone in leather armor, regardless of profession.

[Amairgen]

Jul 9, 2013 6:39:29 GMT -8 fightingferret said:

. . . . . I don't know if any of this is possible, but it's weird seeing everyone in leather armor, regardless of profession.

Good points and conclusion. Seems we either have to . . narrow the difference, beef up plate or nerf leather.

I am open to thoughts on this and will ponder it myself as well. - thx

[andrathien]

Don't know if it's correct or not now... but I seemed to remember the biggest thing about increasing armor types was damage mitigation. So for a strike that would do 12 pts on leather... it might only do 2 pts on plate. I'm really not sure of the combat mechanics math... but will do some looking and see what I can find. I agree that there should be some benefits for armor types above leather... rather than just penalties. I know that even with 70 physical resist... I cant just wade thru a pack of ettins or other melee mobs without taking serious damage. But, I remember back in the day, my friend in full plate wading thru spawn, with myself and another on a boat peppering them with arrows and spells and tossing the occasional heal at him. He was so surrounded that all you could see was the tip of his warfork going up and down amidst the spawn. But he was able to maintain.... in leather you would be dead.

[pyro]

Well I think what you describe is what I noticed. Monsters here do more damage then normal. I never heard of that wearing plate but less resistance can come up with the same damage reduction (as example).

Nerfing leather.. well then i dont need to wear the leather armor anymore for resistance as GM magic resistance gives me 40 all resist. I don't know how deep the 70 resist limit lies inside of RunUO but if it would be raised and metal armor would get a boost in resistance to be really tanky. Just a idea though you don't have to do it that way or something

[fightingferret]

Just adding my further research, but I also notice that the dexterity penalty also affects a warriors healing time, parrying percentage and weapon swing speed, so the plate mail is also affecting their actual warrior abilities by making them heal slower, block less and swing slower.

Here's my idea for a solution.

1) Remove or reduce the DEX penalty
2) Add the DCI (Defense Chance Increase) item mod to all armor pieces (max is 45 usable, anything over is trying to make up for anything that uses lower defense on hit) plate should max it or near max it; this mod would make anyone wearing heavier armors harder to hit by physical means (melee or ranged). but wouldn't help vs magic spells (just your armor resist values [direct damage spells] and resist spells skill [status affects/curses] help you here). An alternative would be to add a component similar to the FEINT weapon special that allows for an across the board damage reduction (but this ability affects both melee, ranged, and magical; however this is easier to apply to all armors).
3) Reduce the Strength requirements by around 10%-20% (this comes out to around 10 points on the legs and chest and lowering with the arms and gloves, gorget, and helm)%, so if someone wears plate with 100 STR and gets cursed for a loss of 15 points, they keep their armor on.
4) IF it is possible to reduce stamina loss when attacked, that should be factored in as well, as stamina is important to keep swing speeds and parry
5) As much as I like the meditation skill, removing the mage armor attribute from the heavier armors would be required to keep mages from using it (but warriors really do use mana too, so maybe look at lowering the costs of some of the weapon specials, improving focus (not sure if it can be made to look like meditation, but meditation gives better returns. The problem is there is nothing to stop a mage from using an improvement to focus as well as meditation for even better mana regen.), or possibly granting some mana regen into armor (heavier pieces get less than lighter pieces, so plate (think melee warrior) might get 1 per piece and studded leather (think archer/scout) might get 3 per piece.

These are just some ideas, I know revamping the entire system needs to be done carefully or we risk breaking other things, which we don't want to do.

[Ravenclaw]

Keep in mind that there are are other types of materials.. Scales for example.. Not sure if crystal crafting is (or will be) implemented here but if so then that needs to be accounted for as well.

[Amairgen]

I have not forgotten this thread. The topic interests me greatly and I will depend on everyone for continued input before with get where we want to be.

I do not want warriors to stand neck deep in monsters and take no damage but I do appreciate that Plate should have real benefits that come with some form of penalty (strength requirement or Dex drop etc etc) but not a penalty that totally negates the benefits.

*Would be nice to have 36 hours in a day*


Maybe the Armor protection from Leather should be reduced and the Armor protection from Plate should be increased. Sorry . . just thinking 'out loud' . . doubt it would be that simple.

[Ravenclaw]

If we look at the armour types as they stand in real life then Plate would offer much better protection than leather but leather would provide faster movement and flexibility.

So lets look at what offers protection and what offers speed/flexibility and apply minor bonus/penalties to each piece of armour based on its type using the following. (Or any other good suggestions)

Protections: (for Plate / Scales)
1- Reflect (Physical)
2- Damage reduction
3- Resistances (possibly increase max allowed, 1 pc metal armour would allow a 71% resistance total, 2 pieces a 72% total, etc.. Plate has less pieces and so may offer better increases to compensate)
4- Defence Chance Increase

Speed/Flexibility: (for Leather)
1- Dexterity
2- Swing Speed
3- Movement Rate
4- Stamina Regen

Clothing: (From Cloth EG: Robes, Shirts, Tunics, Hats, Pants, etc..or only items that take armour slots.)
1- Mana Regen
2- Reflect magical
3- Reduce Regeant cost
4- Spell Damage Increase
5- Faster Casting

Makes clothing from cloth worthwhile and gives an incentive for mages to wear the items with less protection.

etc...

The bonuses (or penalties) do not have to be major per piece but cumulatively they would make a difference. These should be part of the base stats of the armour and should not affect or be affected by any runic or spellcrafting changes added afterwards but instead added to whatever runic/spellcrafting changes are made.

[reuvas]

Id like to see a difference myself. ATM there is no reason to ever wear plate. The resists are horrible, harder to make as well. They have a hefty cost to just wear them. Leather is the ultimate armor in the game. Ring is the only metal that could be worn as it does not come with a penalty and is relatively easy to make. With the different ore types not offering much of a bonus to any of it. 

My conclusion. Until it is fixed if you want to craft armor stick to tailoring and if you want weapons suck it up and gm Smithy as they are the only thing you would want smithy for the moment.

[Amairgen]

Will look into these again - thx

[reuvas]

No ty! This world of yours is a great place for me to play and spend my time. I appreciate your work and attention!